Nacho
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Ex-President of Venture Club Spain
Silver is the fastest color.
Posts: 623
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Post by Nacho on Dec 28, 2004 12:11:55 GMT 1
Dear all friends: As many of you know, the weakest point of our beloved Royal Star Ventures is the rear shock absorber. Everybody knows that sooner or later it will loose part or all the oil inside of it and therefore, the bike will become dangerous with the rear shock too soft and usually going all the way down and making hits in bumps or big holes on the road. I myself had suffered this problem too many months already and tried to solve it by ordering to a specialized suspension company to build a new shock for me. After more than one year of conversations, they ended giving my money back and not building the shock. They said it was due to "demand reasons" being the the RS Venture not very popular in Holland and Europe. Can you believe it? If they just could have built a good shock, it would have probably been sold all around the world, specially in USA, where RSV 5 years warranty are finishing for the 99 and 2000 models. Anyway. That's their problem, not mine. Mine is that I'm at the same point and with the same problem of one year ago. My bike is still too dangerous and it is specially uncomfortable with passenger. I ordered a new shock from Yamaha, the original, but I hate to live knowing that it will fail again. But then, my good friend John, gave me a document in Switzerland and explained to me how a small and cheap modification of the Shock Linkage could solve the problem, not only using the original shock absorber from Yamaha, but also improving the handling of these heavy bikes. Here is the document. It is in PDF format. Download it to your computer by doing right bottom click with your mouse and save to your hard drive. You can also open it directly by doing normal click and read it on screen. For both cases you will need to have Acrobat Reader in your computer. Read it carefully and come back here for the rest of info and questions about the whole deal. If you have problems with the document, I can send it by e-mail if you prefer so or even send it as a Microsoft Word document. [ftp]http://usuarios.lycos.es/nachoaltesa/Fotos/ShockLinkage.pdf[/ftp] Now, to discuss in this forum, I made a Word document with the way those T-bones should be done. I have used both, inches and centimeters. My goal is to make those T-bones of steel and install them along with the new shock that is in its way. I would appreciate from those that have better knowledge in these kind of things any help or explanation and correct me if I have made any mistake, specially if misunderstood any measure or important concept of the original document. Here are a couple of pics of the new T-bones and all the measures used to make them. I hope that they are all right and that I can send them to the steel maker as soon as possible. But I want to make sure they are all right. What do you think, John? Anyway, I look forward to hearing from you about this deal and I hope that you all have a great New Year's Eve. Best regards to all form Spain. Nacho.
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Post by roland on Jan 4, 2005 11:09:39 GMT 1
I got mine (and John's) to a galvanic shop and let them apply a zink coat against the rust. In Germany is also available a Zink Spray (from Louis) that will also do the trick.
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Post by Venturer on Jan 4, 2005 13:18:06 GMT 1
What does this modification do to the Venture? Does it really improve anything?
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Post by johnjr on Jan 4, 2005 22:25:58 GMT 1
Emailed ya Nacho.....looks good!!!!
The fix that Nacho is talking about is called a Shock Linkage Retro.....the purpose of this retro fit is to raise the bike 1 inch...what it does is releave the pressure on the shock that is always there and hopefully prevent it from leaking...a major problem with the 2nd Gen....it also raises the bike to help it's cleareance problems when lights are added to the side bags during cornering.
Roland & I have completed the retro, mine is installed and has been since last year, June, and I have not lost any air in the shock except when I let it out myself. I also have Diamond R side bag lites ...added underneath the bags, and they will not scrap anymore....when they are installed, the pipes are lowered about an inch and will hit as you corner...with this retro, that is eliminated!!!!
So, I am a big believer..it works for me!! and no shock replacements!!!!!
Good luck!
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Nacho
Administrator
Ex-President of Venture Club Spain
Silver is the fastest color.
Posts: 623
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Post by Nacho on Jan 11, 2005 18:20:11 GMT 1
Thanks for the info, John but I still got a question. See this picture? It is from the PDF document where it explains all the modification. It says: "This shows the difference between the stock link and the new ones" This is where I am confused. The only difference that I see is in the shape, but not in length. What am I misunderstanding? i thought they were supposed to be shorter than the stock ones. And finally, is it necessary to give the links that "Bone" shape? Could we leave them the same way I showed you in my drawing? I think it will be stronger that way. Anyway. My links are right now under construction and I hope they come this week. The new shock arrived today also and I hope I can mount everything next week. I will keep you informed. By the way, I have to check, but it seems that the new shock is a little bit different from the old one that I'm still riding with. I will show you some pictures when I have both in my hands. We keep in touch. Best regards to all,
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Post by johnjr on Jan 11, 2005 21:08:38 GMT 1
Hey Nacho...yes it is hard to see the difference, but the new "Bones" are only 1/4 inch shorter(0.69cm), which in a pic like this , is hard to see. As for the corners being rounded off, I think when you take them off you will see that the square ends will not clear the structure at the top where it will be attached, it has to be rounded....and keep in mind it will move as well, so it needs room to do that.
Hope that helps!
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Nacho
Administrator
Ex-President of Venture Club Spain
Silver is the fastest color.
Posts: 623
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Post by Nacho on Jan 12, 2005 10:45:36 GMT 1
OK John. Now I understand that they are only 0.69 cm. I thought they were much shorter. I also understand that the corners need to be rounded, I guess that is obvious as they have some motion, but my question was another one. Let's see if I can explain it with my poor English. Is it necessary to make the links with this shape as the stock ones? Or can we go with them with this other shape? If we can use them as shown in the second drawing, I guess the links are gonna be stronger. Maybe heavier, but also stronger. Anyway, I hope they work as I have made them that way. God, I'm glad this forum is working so nicely. You guys are great. Don't forget to remind me to pay the first round in France!!! Best regards to all, Nacho.
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Falko
Administrator
Founder and Pres. of the European Venture Club
if you like to talk skype me at : falko63
Posts: 1,793
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Post by Falko on Jan 12, 2005 11:31:08 GMT 1
your english is fantastic Nacho and i think everyone has understood your question but #how to answer..., for myself : no way..., i`m not into that RSV - stuff if there are real techn. Problems : like which one can handle more power before be broken - i have a friend who has studied that stuff, he is now working for the army (Bundeswehr in germany ) and is head ing. for the department that tests new vehicles before ordering but i think : this question should be asked to - and answered by someone who has done this before maybe on the internet in the tech-cafe at yamaha-europe or in the US where this bike is much often sold than here in germany sorry i couldn`t answer your question better... if you want to contact my friend - let me know ...
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Post by roland on Jan 12, 2005 12:43:54 GMT 1
@ Nacho:
You can use them like in the second picture. It is not necessary to give them the stock form because there is room enough for this parts. The round corners should only be for better looking and handling. The additional weight of this parts are marginal with the weight of the whole bike. ;D
John's and mine look like in the second picture. To install them we had to press the shock a little with a car-jack. Then the new linkages fit well without problems. Don't forget to clean and lube the bolts. You will be surprised how they need this. For cleaning I used fine steel wool to get the old lube away and to polish the bolts a little.
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Post by johnjr on Jan 12, 2005 12:56:32 GMT 1
Yes Nacho..there shouldn't be any problem making them the way you want to, they will work just as good for sure. I made the mistake of not cleaning/re lubing the bolts when I did mine...so I hope that doesn't cause me a problem later....if it does, I'll just have to clean them!!!!
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Post by roland on Jan 12, 2005 17:23:01 GMT 1
Hey, John!
Your memory don't serve You right: We DID clean and lube the bolts before we installed them back! ;D ;D ;D
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Falko
Administrator
Founder and Pres. of the European Venture Club
if you like to talk skype me at : falko63
Posts: 1,793
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Post by Falko on Jan 12, 2005 17:32:20 GMT 1
treat that old man with respect pls... he still know how to handle a bike i hope ;D
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Nacho
Administrator
Ex-President of Venture Club Spain
Silver is the fastest color.
Posts: 623
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Post by Nacho on Jan 12, 2005 18:57:34 GMT 1
Sure I will clean and lube everything.
The people who are making my links called me this evening and told me that the straps they have available could not be of 1/4'' (0,64 cm).
They can only make them of 6.5 millimeters, which are 0.26 inches instead of 0.25 or 1/4''
Do you guys know if there is gonna be room enough for the bolts being the links a little bit wider? It is only 1 millimeter, but I hope I can make it.
How do you see it, Roland?
Thanks in advance,
Nacho.
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Post by johnjr on Jan 12, 2005 20:28:57 GMT 1
Nacho....what is the reason they cannot make it as required??? I guess you have no choice, it will probably be OK...I remember we had to file a little bit for the bearings to go into the holes...so I think you will be OK...just as long as the bearings don't wobble a lot inside the hole!!!!!
I guess I am loosing my marbles, if Roland says we cleaned and lubed the bearings then we did??? I am glad he has a good memory!!! ;D So Nacho...better wait to hear from Roland on this....but I am pretty sure we needed to make the holes a little bit bigger....so don't worry, they will work fine!!!!!!
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Post by roland on Jan 13, 2005 11:39:52 GMT 1
We had to make the holes bigger again because it was a very heavy cink coat. Before we got them coated the holes were right. I think the one millimeter should not cause some problems. Our zink coat may be also so strong at all four sides. The nuts should fit good at the bolts after installing the bones. If not, You can sand them down a little. Don't forget to safe the nuts with Loctite. This is it, was Yamaha had done to this nuts and we did it at John's bike too. (I write this, if John don't remember )
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Post by johnjr on Jan 13, 2005 12:04:19 GMT 1
Danke Roland!!! ;D
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Nacho
Administrator
Ex-President of Venture Club Spain
Silver is the fastest color.
Posts: 623
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Post by Nacho on Jan 13, 2005 16:58:24 GMT 1
Dear friends: While my new links get ready, I have been checking something at the official Yamaha Web Site in USA. What I have found surprises me a little bit and worries me also a lot. Let's see if I can explain it clearly. First of all, the 05 RSV does not appear in the list of bikes available for the parts catalog. The last one that I can see over there is the 04 RSV, but not the 05. Instead of it, I can see the new RSTD (Royal Star Tour Deluxe), which is very similar to the RSV but not exactly. It has lost some fairings, trunk, audio equipment and some other things that I don't remember right now. Check this link at the Spanish Venture Club Site if you want to see some pics of it: www.venture-spain.com/Novedades.htm Anyway, if you guys check the parts catalog for the RSV and the RSTD, you can see that most of the parts are the same ones in both bikes, but still we have some differences. It is normal, is they are different bikes. So, what worries me is that one of the differences is in the rear suspension. As you all know, John has brought from the States a rear shock for my RSV. I already have it at home and am only wanting for the links to take both things to the dealer and install them. Here are the drawings of both bike's rear shock-absorbers: RSV: And RSTD As you can see, the only difference is the new hose that the RSTD has. Other than that, the whole shock seems to be exactly the same. Now the question is if this RSTD shock that I have is good for the RSV or not. I don't know if the thing is that Yamaha rebuilt a new shock due to many failures in the States or if it simply is different because it is a different bike. Do you guys have any news about this? Does anybody have the opportunity to take some measurements of the RSV rear shock in length and wideness so I can compare with the new RSTD one? Should I take the risk to install it? Are both shocks compatible? I would appreciate any help in this deal that is driving me nuts. Anyway, I'll be arround. Best regards to all and thanks in advance for your help. Nacho.
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Nacho
Administrator
Ex-President of Venture Club Spain
Silver is the fastest color.
Posts: 623
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Post by Nacho on Jan 13, 2005 20:21:41 GMT 1
OK. I asked some questions at the American site and this is what I got. I guess that my problem is solved. Hi Nacho, Let me tell you what I was told about this and you can relay this to your member. This past summer I attended Star Days 2004. While there, an issue came up regarding some tire service I had recently had done. I went to the Yamaha corporate tent. I asked to speak to the highest ranking person they had there in the service division. A gentleman named Dan Rousch came over. He was some regional big shot with Yamaha service division. After I gave him an ear full regarding the tire service and was assure of a free correction, we started shooting the breeze a bit while we took a smoke break. I asked him if he was aware of the growing problem with the RSV shock failures. He smiled and said.. Oh yeah. I then asked him when Yamaha was going to correct the problem. He again smiled and said.. Well, we have... sort of. He took me over to one of the '05 RSTD models they had. I looked underneath and looked at the shock as he explained what Yamaha did. On the RSV shock boot, there are small holes at the bottom of the boot to allow it to expand when compressed. Otherwise, the boot would pop off right? He said that these holes were allowing road grime (dust, muddy rain water etc) to get into the boot and collect and dry around the shock shaft. He said that this was causing the shock seal to wear prematurely. What they did on the '05 RSTD shock was use a boot with no vent holes at the bottom. Instead, they used a new vent hose that ran up under the seat (or somewhere?) to allow for venting where less chance of grime getting into the boot. Makes sense to me. I then asked if this new design was going to be made available on the RSV when they needed replaced. He said the last he heard that the engineers had not certified the shock as a RSV replacement, but they were looking into it. His gut feeling was it would be at some point. Sooo, I think the shock should fit fine. If it were me, I would be very happy that they sent me this shock instead of the old RSV designed shock. NOTE: I had previously posted my conversation on the forum and many members were very skeptical that this was a real fix. To me, I can see the logic behind what I was told and feel it is certainly possible. But I am not a mechanical genious so who knows?? I can't image Yamaha going to the trouble of changing the shock design if they didn't truley feel it would correct the problems, but maybe I am just niave.. _________________ Gary Mace - '02 Midnight RSV - '97 Virago 535 - My Photo Gallery Venturers MC #828 - SCRC 358 Wow!!! It makes a lot of sense to me also, Gary. One million thanks. So it is clear that the new vent hose will prevent the new shocks from failure (hopefully). But now the deal is to figure out if the RSTD and the RSV use the same size shock. If they are the same shock, my problem is already solved and next week I will be riding safe again after more than one year of danger. But if they are not the same size, will I have to sale that shock and get one of the old ones? How can we take some measurements of the shocks to see if they are compatible? I have in my desk the new one and can take those measurements. Anybody has an old one without the vent hose in the garage? Even if it is one which already failed we can take the measurements. And one final question. Could any of the 05 RSV owners go to his garage and take a look underneath of the bike to see if their shock has this vent hose? It is very easy to do and no tools are needed. Just one knee on the floor. That's all. Will you, Bob, please. I bet Silver Rain has the answer to my problem. Remember that we are searching for two hoses. One for pumping the shock as always and a thicker one for the vent. I will post a picture here later so you can see what hose we are looking for. Anyway, thanks a lot friends, specially Gary. Now I think that I can see some light at the end of the tunnel. Best regards to all from Spain. Nacho. _________________ Nacho Altés Asenjo. Venture Club Spain. www.venture-spain.comIt is the same shock as the RSV with a different boot and a vent hose. Thats what Dan told me at the Yamaha tent. Sorry I didn't make that clearer. _________________ Gary Mace - '02 Midnight RSV - '97 Virago 535 - My Photo Gallery Venturers MC #828 - SCRC 358 No problem, Gary. It is probably my poor English. Here is the promised picture. Thanks again. Nacho. Thanks John you brought the right one!!!! Get ready for lots of beers in France!!!! Best regards to all. Nacho.
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Post by johnjr on Jan 14, 2005 11:24:39 GMT 1
Good Nacho...I think the Mod. that you are doing is really the correct fix....I speak to a guy on the MTA forum who is very familiar with this problem and he basically points to the poor material used for the shaft inside the shock, it isn't made of aluminum, but standard steel, which causes the seal that goes up and down to wear out prematurely , then let's out the oil as the pressure continues to wear the seal........so anyway, I think the combination of the new shock and the Mod. will make you a happy camper!!! ;D
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Post by roland on Jan 14, 2005 11:55:10 GMT 1
In my opinion the additional hose seems to me as a valve to let too much pressure out. The pressure can be get from overfill the shock with air and also with too much load on the bike with max. pressure allowed. In my shock I have only the half from the allowed pressure and my shock has no problems with the seals or failure until yet (it's the fourth season now). The links for the shock we have built may do an additional thing to take a little bit load from the shock. All together should fix the shock problem forever.
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Nacho
Administrator
Ex-President of Venture Club Spain
Silver is the fastest color.
Posts: 623
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Post by Nacho on Jan 28, 2005 14:53:10 GMT 1
OK, guys. Yesterday I was thinking all the time about the modification for this problem and I suddenly I remembered that I took some pictures underneath John's bike this summer in Switzerland. Here are the pics of his bike with the modification done. Today I'm taking my bike to the dealer for the installation. I hope it works. We will see. Have a nice weekend all. Best regards, Nacho.
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Post by johnjr on Jan 28, 2005 15:35:51 GMT 1
Yes Nacho...I remember now...good to see you still had them!!!! ;D
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Nacho
Administrator
Ex-President of Venture Club Spain
Silver is the fastest color.
Posts: 623
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Post by Nacho on Jan 31, 2005 11:05:32 GMT 1
Sorry guys, I posted the same picture twice.
I have changed the second one.
I will talk later about what my dealer told me last Friday about this modification. Right now I'm a little bit busy.
See you later.
Nacho.
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Nacho
Administrator
Ex-President of Venture Club Spain
Silver is the fastest color.
Posts: 623
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Post by Nacho on Feb 8, 2005 19:02:26 GMT 1
OK, guys, I finally got my bike fixed with the new shock absorber on and the new linkage also working. I have only used the bike once since the modification has been done, so I guess it is too soon to talk about how I feel. But what I can do is to show you the bad state of my old shock and the old links. Man, you can't imagine how much dirtiness I had down there!!! Anyway. Here are the pics. I hope I can talk more about the modification next days. See ya all!!!!! Nacho. Right before the modification: The old Shock: And the old linkage:
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Post by johnjr on Feb 8, 2005 19:42:29 GMT 1
Hey Nacho.....glad to hear you have it back....I know you are going to feel a difference....be sure to tell us when you take it on some good curves....the pics look great....I think you needed to clean the bike a little better from underneath...but that is water over the dam.....it is hard to tell if the links holes at either end are oval in shape.....if they are that would have been a problem. But, for sure, you had a problem with the shock...it was leaking or done leaking!!!!!!!! So, you will be a happy camper now...and so will you're co-rider!!!!!!! Keep the pics coming!!!!!! ;D
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Nacho
Administrator
Ex-President of Venture Club Spain
Silver is the fastest color.
Posts: 623
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Post by Nacho on Feb 9, 2005 17:17:07 GMT 1
Ok. Here are my last pictures about this project. They show both, the new shockabsorber and new linkage. Today, being my birthday, I decided to take the bike to come to work and have a nice ride around the city. It was very fresh early on the morning, having only 1 Celsius degree, but it was sunny and clear. After lunch, it was 12 ºC and the ride was great. The bike feels lighter and handles a little bit better, specially in roundabouts and cornering. I am testing the shock with no pressure at all in it, so I still have some options to see which pressure is the best one now. I will increase the pressure slowly each time that I ride to see the differences. Anyway, I hope I could help anybody with this project and of course I want to thank very specially those who helped me with it (John, Roland, Falko, and some of the folks from the American forum, like Venturous). Here are the pics. Best regards to all, Nacho.
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Post by johnjr on Feb 9, 2005 19:01:39 GMT 1
Looks like it is gonna work just fine Nacho......glad to see it back and riding good for you!!!!!! ;D
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Post by grunerj on Oct 6, 2005 15:06:34 GMT 1
It looks very usefull. I am going to do this in winter time. Thank you for instruction.
Jarda
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Nacho
Administrator
Ex-President of Venture Club Spain
Silver is the fastest color.
Posts: 623
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Post by Nacho on Oct 6, 2005 15:58:21 GMT 1
I am glad that you liked it.
I can tell you now, after all these months that it is very worth it. The Venture is much easier to handle with these things. You will notice it specially in roundabouts.
Best regards from Spain,
Nacho.
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Post by grunerj on Apr 16, 2006 8:04:58 GMT 1
I have changed shock linkage on my RSV this week and Me and My wife can say that handling is better.The seat is a little bit higher, but feeling from riding is very good. I can recommend this to all. Thank you Nacho for the tip. Jarda
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